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How To Get Started With Inclusive Design with Cora Cowles
52:53 with TreehouseCora Cowles, Experience Design Director, presents on how to get started with inclusive design.
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All right, everybody, please,
help me welcome Cora Cowles.
0:04
Cora leads the user experience discipline
for huge Detroit as their experienced
0:08
design director, with over 13 years
of experience across many industries,
0:13
financial services, automotive,
consumer packaged goods, and
0:18
an MSI in Human-Computer Interaction
from the University of Michigan.
0:22
She specializes in information
architecture and user research.
0:27
Inquisitive when it matters most,
Cora keeps an eye on new trends, but
0:31
considers herself a purist in her role.
0:35
She shies away from anything that does
not directly benefit a user's experience.
0:38
She's always searching for underlying
root causes and contrary positions.
0:43
Cora, it's an honor having you here,
over to you.
0:48
>> Thank you so much, I appreciate it.
0:52
Good morning, good afternoon,
everyone, wherever you might be,
0:55
it sounds like we have people
from all corners of the world.
0:58
So I'm glad to be able to meet
with you all, and talk to you all.
1:02
Even under these circumstances,
1:05
it kinda makes it even better because
we have participation from so far.
1:07
So I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen.
1:11
Oops, this guy here.
1:13
And it started.
1:17
All right, so
you should be able to see my screen now.
1:20
And yes,
1:24
I'm gonna talk to you all today about
getting started with inclusive design.
1:25
It's something near and dear to my heart.
1:30
So we'll start with definition,
what it means, in practice.
1:34
So it's one thing to have Webster's
definition of a thing, and
1:40
sometimes is quite another once you
start to put it into practice and
1:44
you have other constraints
weighing on you.
1:48
We'll do a challenge to make it
practical for your everyday work, and
1:50
then we'll do a quick wrap up.
1:55
And we'll do Q&A at the end.
1:57
So first, a definition.
2:00
It's not as straightforward is image and
look not inclusive design.
2:03
The experience design
as a discipline itself,
2:08
in the grand scheme of
things is fairly new.
2:12
So the idea of it being
inclusive is even newer.
2:16
It's not an age old occupation like, I
don't know, accounting or being a lawyer,
2:19
those things have been around for so long,
whereas experience design is much younger.
2:25
So we start with a few definitions from
a few well known sources, so Wikipedia.
2:31
Design process in which
a product service or
2:37
environment is optimized for
a specific user with specific needs.
2:41
Microsoft thinks of it a bit differently,
as a methodology,
2:46
born out of digital environments.
2:50
Notice it says, born out of digital
environments, that'll be important,
2:53
that enables and draws on the full range
of human diversity, the full range.
2:58
But it means, including and learning from
people with a range of perspectives.
3:03
And you'll see they use
that word a couple times.
3:07
And then what does Apple say?
3:09
An inclusive design gives more
people the opportunity to enjoy your
3:12
app/website/service/product/anything else,
by ensuring that everyone can use and
3:17
understand it by designing
with accessibility in mind.
3:24
And I think sometimes we have a sense for
what accessibility means.
3:28
But as we go through the SEC today,
we'll start to look at it per station,
3:33
and then always auditing and
testing for accessibility.
3:39
There are some words, though,
that start to come to the forefront.
3:48
And that starts to draw themes across
some of these main definitions.
3:52
Things like the idea that
people have specific needs and
3:57
that everyone owns under this
model isn't that everyone just
4:01
kind of does the same thing or
thinks the same way.
4:06
That there is a full
range of human diversity.
4:10
When we think diversity,
sometimes it's just about race,
4:14
but it's not that and it is much,
much broader than that.
4:18
And to be good experienced designers,
we have to think that broadly,
4:22
about how people might be
experiencing our product.
4:26
But there is a range of perspective.
4:29
Remember I said that word, range,
comes back up a couple of times,
4:32
the idea that everyone can use it and
that things can be easy to access,
4:37
whether you have a physical handicap or
a mental disability,
4:42
or you have some sort
of societal constraint.
4:47
That everyone can access it, and
4:50
that there's the ability to personalize
the experience for a particular user.
4:52
What does all this mean though?
4:58
I mean, really, that's a lot of words.
5:01
What does that even mean for us?
5:03
It's the idea that we all bring some
form of privilege and bias to our work.
5:06
No matter who you are, the idea that
you're even on this call today,
5:12
lets me know that there at some level,
you have some bit of privilege.
5:17
You have a computer that you're
able to sit in front of,
5:22
you have an internet connection that
you're able to pull this up on.
5:25
And we bring those privileges and
those biases that are part of us,
5:28
that we learned growing up to our work.
5:34
And it's up to us to look beyond those,
to create work that
5:38
everyone can access and
that everyone can understand and use.
5:43
So a quick story.
5:49
Let's go back in time.
5:51
And we'll go back a little bit,
just early,
5:54
mid last year, so
maybe just over a year ago, into May.
5:58
And there were polls happening,
where you have to go and
6:02
vote, and the Democratic
candidate pool was very wildly.
6:08
In May 2019, there were 16 candidates.
6:15
In February that had dropped to half.
6:19
By March, a few more candidates.
6:23
Now Super Tuesday was March 3rd,
and that's when 16 or
6:27
18 states went to go vote that day,
so March 3rd.
6:33
Between March 1st and march 4th, sorry,
6:38
by March 4th,
we were already down to four candidates.
6:41
So that's right after Super Tuesday.
6:45
March 5th, the very next day,
we were done another candidate.
6:48
And then, so, I live in Michigan and
I went to go vote on March 10th.
6:53
On March 19th,
we were down to two candidates.
6:59
So for some of us, that's inconsequential,
7:03
because we have the ability to look up who
7:07
the candidates are minutes
before we go to the polls.
7:11
While we're standing in line for the
polls, we can get up to date information,
7:16
because I can pull out my phone and
I can see who the candidates are.
7:21
I have the ability to get
alerts sent to me, to my phone,
7:25
I can go,
I can open up my computer anytime I want.
7:30
I can talk to other people and find out
who the candidates are, that way too.
7:35
But everyone doesn't have that
same privilege that I have.
7:40
So, inclusive design is often
seen narrowly as just a product.
7:46
But in this case,
we're talking about an experience, or
7:54
the idea that toting as a civic service.
7:59
Think about for a second,
8:02
a citizen who doesn't have
regular access to a computer or
8:05
the internet,
maybe they have to go to the library.
8:10
Well, maybe they have to ride
a bus to go to the library,
8:16
to sit on the computer,
to see who the candidates are.
8:21
Maybe in their neighborhood, the library
doesn't even have any computers,
8:26
because that's the reality for
some of these citizens.
8:30
Or they don't have a TV at home, so they
can't pull up, or cable TV, and they can't
8:33
pull up CNN to figure out who's still
in the running bootstraps, who hasn't.
8:39
So that means that the experience
hasn't been designed for everyone.
8:44
It's not an inclusive design.
8:49
And granted, its government and
things are slow to change.
8:51
But it's an example of an instance
where we don't always think about
8:56
everyone around the edges of
the audience who might be affected, and
9:01
why they might be affected.
9:05
So often when we're given briefs,
say by strategy or
9:10
by your business analyst maybe,
these are the things that they covered.
9:13
Maybe they're going to give
you some demographics.
9:18
So who are these people,
how old are they, are they men or women.
9:20
We might learn about some
of their psychographics.
9:27
So how do they think, or
behavioral, how do they act.
9:30
Or geographic, where do they live?
9:35
You all probably know about this, this
is the 80/20 rule, the Pareto principle.
9:41
Is the idea that you could account for
80% of those needs we just looked
9:44
at by doing only 20% of the effort,
it sounds like a simple win, right?
9:50
And in a lot of ways it is,
if I only have to exert 20% of my effort,
9:55
but I can cover this whole
swath of my users needs,
10:00
yeah, I'm gonna choose that every time.
10:04
But if you choose that every time,
you're inevitably leaving out
10:07
audiences every time, but who are those
people that we're leaving out?
10:12
These are some of the people who
you might not always think of,
10:18
they might be on the fringes,
they might fit into those four quadrants,
10:22
four categories that I gave you, but
they're on the edges of those categories.
10:27
So a black single mother of five,
maybe she doesn't have a high income,
10:32
maybe she's one of those people who
has to pack up her whole family and
10:37
go to the library to use the computer.
10:42
A quadriplegic veteran who has
a physical disability, but
10:44
is still able to function in every other
way, are we designing for that person?
10:49
Maybe an oil rig operator
who is off the grid for
10:54
months at a time and
that list goes on, as you can see,
10:58
people who we don't necessarily
always think of when
11:03
we're designing, but
they are part of the experience.
11:08
They deserve to take
part in the experience,
11:13
they deserve to have experiences that
are designed well for them to use also.
11:16
What does this look like in practice?
11:23
Well, first off, we have some
people to convince because again,
11:28
this is a new idea.
11:31
I mean, I've been doing this for
close to 15 years now,
11:32
and when I started, and
I'm fortunate now to work at
11:38
a place huge that supports
human-computer action and
11:43
the user experience, and understands it.
11:48
But I have colleagues in other jobs,
in other roles,
11:52
who have to work daily to
[INAUDIBLE] what they do and
11:57
why it's important, so that people
that still needs to be convinced.
12:02
First, sometimes it's yourself, especially
if you're new to the occupation and
12:09
you're just kind of getting your feet
wet and understanding what it means and
12:14
understanding experienced design itself,
then understanding the need for
12:18
inclusivity, sometimes that takes a little
bit of effort and a little bit of work.
12:23
But you can't work on convincing anyone
else, leadership or stakeholders, until
12:28
you start with yourself because you have
to defend yourself to that leadership and
12:33
those stakeholders.
12:38
So it starts with understanding what your
biases are, what your privileges are,
12:39
and how you can look beyond them
to help design good experiences.
12:46
On to leadership, so
your leadership in most cases, I mean,
12:51
that's who you answer to, right?
12:55
You have to make sure that you're
doing a good job for them and
12:57
in order to keep your role,
in order to advance in your career.
13:01
So there's someone you have to
convince because if you convince them,
13:05
then you can still do good work
as an experienced designer.
13:10
But again, you're leaving out individuals
who still have a right to that
13:14
experience and we don't wanna leave
them out, they shouldn't be left out.
13:19
And stakeholders, stakeholders
are the ones, they care about money,
13:24
they care about the bottom line and if you
can't meet the bottom line inclusivity,
13:28
who, what, [LAUGH] that doesn't matter.
13:33
So being able to meet the bottom line,
because that's what matters to them,
13:36
we need to find ways to make inclusivity
make sense for the bottom line and
13:40
we can do that.
13:44
So the first way, designing for
inclusivity means improving for all,
13:47
imagine you were designing
the interior of a vehicle,
13:52
where all the gauges and buttons and
gear shifts and everything would go.
13:55
When you're designing that,
if you imagine that you're designing for
14:00
someone with, say one arm or the use
of one arm, they can only use one arm.
14:06
If you can make that interior function so
14:13
seamlessly that that person can use
that vehicle with only one arm,
14:16
imagine how well somebody with
two arms could use that vehicle.
14:21
It also reminds me of, I'm a sports fan so
I like baseball a lot, when the batter on
14:27
deck steps up and they're taking their
practice swing or when they're on deck and
14:32
they're taking their practice swings,
they put the donut on their bat.
14:36
Because the idea is if they can get a
couple swings in with that doughnut which
14:41
makes their bat heavier, then by
the time they get up to the plate and
14:45
take that doughnut off,
well now they can swing for the fences.
14:49
So by designing for a very baseline group
and getting everything just right for
14:52
that baseline group,
by the time you have to level up,
14:59
it then include your mainstream,
everyone, now, this is a cakewalk.
15:04
This is the piece of cake
because you've already designed
15:10
all of the small pieces and
parts for that baseline group.
15:14
Using storytelling to
develop a sense of empathy,
15:20
I've had I think the great
fortune of working with some
15:25
people taught me a lot about
the impact of storytelling and
15:30
it has to do with human nature, I think.
15:35
That no matter where you're from,
what side of the aisle you sit on,
15:39
that humans have a hard time
resisting a good story, right?
15:46
Something that tells you a lot
about the main character,
15:52
where they come from,
maybe some adversity they went through,
15:56
how they got to be where they are today,
and how they overcame that adversity.
16:00
And so using that storytelling
as a tool to help you maybe
16:05
sell your ideas into leadership and
answer shareholders,
16:10
shareholders, we know they
like the money part of it, but
16:15
into leadership to help add
context to your decision making
16:21
about your inclusivity can help
develop that sense of empathy and
16:26
help them understand better
where that user is coming from.
16:32
So looking beyond some of
the traditional data points and
16:39
measuring an unexpected impact.
16:42
So, data analysts will often
have their standard package,
16:44
their standard package of data
might include engagement,
16:49
click through rates, and
we're talking just digital here now,
16:53
click through rates, maybe bounce rate,
time on page, those things.
16:58
And those things helps you measure
the experience and how well it's doing or
17:03
not doing, but if you look beyond
those traditional data points,
17:08
sometimes you can spot other gems that
you may have otherwise overlooked.
17:13
This is where it's important to
have a good relationship with other
17:18
disciplines on the team.
17:22
The data person is always one of my
closest teammates that I work with,
17:24
and it's because we have a relationship
where I can ask them questions and
17:29
ask them to dig into things that normally
they wouldn't consider digging into.
17:34
They have so much data at their
disposal that, sometimes,
17:40
they don't have the capacity
to just go on missions and
17:44
digging into things when they've got
deadlines to meet and reports to get out.
17:48
But if I can come to them with a pointed
set of questions, and I can ask, well,
17:53
what happened to this audience in
this particular zip code once we made
17:58
this particular change?
18:02
And if you have that relationship with
your analyst and they can formulate
18:03
your question into something that they can
actually pool and report on, you might
18:09
find that you have unexpected impacts
that you would've overlooked otherwise.
18:14
And stand strong in your convictions,
I think some of
18:22
the best career advice that
I've ever heard is this,
18:27
standing strong in what you believe in.
18:31
Even if that means that that
current workplace is maybe not for
18:35
you in the long run because they
don't have the same convictions,
18:39
because we're designing experiences
that shape people's lives, right?
18:43
They shape how people get back and
forth to work every day,
18:48
if you're in the auto industry, or
maybe how they light their house or
18:52
power their house,
if you're in the utilities industry.
18:57
These are important things in
people's everyday lives and
19:01
they're having an effect on your lives,
so if you find that you strongly
19:05
believe in designing for inclusivity or
at least the idea of it,
19:10
even if you're not quite sure
how to bring it to life yet.
19:15
But that you believe in these things and
you're having a very, very hard time
19:19
selling them through, I encourage you
to stand strong in your convictions and
19:24
understand that everyone won't
necessarily understand or
19:29
will take longer to get to it.
19:32
But that you build your career
around what you believe in and
19:34
what your convictions are rather than
what a particular company desires of you,
19:38
or what lane they desire for
you to stay in.
19:44
All right, so a challenge, let's start
with a project you may have worked on,
19:50
maybe it was your favorite,
maybe it was your least favorite,
19:55
[LAUGH] maybe it was The most
recent could be ongoing right now.
19:59
It could be one where you kind of
wish you had another shot at it,
20:04
because maybe it didn't
go quite as planned.
20:09
I want you to think about some of
the aspects of that project that
20:12
could have been tweaked
to be more inclusive.
20:17
And how you might have approached
it differently had these
20:21
particular principles been used.
20:25
So during the research phase,
maybe you reconsider its structure,
20:28
the research structure, and its execution.
20:33
So there's the idea of
the relationship with the facilitator.
20:37
Can the participant trust the facilitator?
20:40
Because, maybe either they look like them,
or they came from where they came from.
20:43
Is there a good rapport
between the two of them?
20:47
Where does the research take place?
20:50
Is it in the participant's home,
20:53
like a diary study where
they're most comfortable?
20:55
Or is it across town in some big high
rise in a place where they would
20:58
otherwise never go,
which could be less comfortable?
21:03
Are there missed cues?
21:06
And do the facilitator and
the observers understand the participant
21:10
well enough to pick up on both verbal and
nonverbal cues?
21:16
Because, if not, things like that
could be easily dismissed and
21:21
then you miss an opportunity for
inclusivity.
21:25
Maybe you're on to personas.
21:31
So I gave you those examples earlier
of people who might be on sort of
21:34
the fringes of who you'd
normally consider.
21:39
But think about the most odd persons.
21:42
[INAUDIBLE] And
I know we have defined parameters.
21:46
You can't get around that, and
you have to design for someone,
21:49
otherwise you're designing for no one.
21:54
So let's say you are in the world
of sports, let's say some sport,
21:57
where your persona might
typically be male.
22:03
But what if your persona was female,
or transgender even?
22:07
Think about literacy,
we probably all take it for
22:11
granted that we can read with no problem.
22:15
But I think people are still
surprised that there are many,
22:19
many adults today who
are functionally illiterate.
22:25
And they get by because
they've learned tricks, and
22:30
picked up things here and
there to help them get by.
22:33
Or they have a person that they
can count on to help them get by.
22:36
But they can't read
a paragraph to you out loud.
22:40
Think about physical disabilities, and
22:44
maybe not the ones that
first come to mind.
22:47
But challenge yourself
a little bit to think
22:50
beyond what you would normally
consider for your persona,
22:52
and how that might change how you
design your product or service.
22:56
Your use cases, maybe you replace
some of those keywords to reframe it.
23:03
And not to say that you are taking
it completely out of the realm
23:08
of possibility.
23:13
But that, again,
23:15
you just push it just a little bit to
find out where those edges really are.
23:16
So, maybe it's the physical location.
23:21
We talked about the library already.
23:23
But it could be someone who lives,
unfortunately in Detroit, we have lots
23:25
of houses where they're the only house on
the entire block, and it's not by choice.
23:31
It's because the other houses have been
raised or have been burned down by fire.
23:37
And so now,
this is what they're surrounded by.
23:41
And unfortunately,
it's kind of gone back to wildlife.
23:44
But that means they don't get the same
city services as everyone else.
23:46
Maybe they don't have neighbors
to talk to, like everyone else.
23:51
So their physical location matters in
the way they approach the world and
23:55
their experiences.
23:59
Could be their environment,
24:01
I mean, environment could mean a lot
of different things too, right?
24:02
So there's your physical environment,
right?
24:06
Also your social environment,
24:09
[INAUDIBLE] what is going on in
the world around you right now.
24:11
Are you in a shut down,
[LAUGH] like all of us right now?
24:14
Are you able to talk to other people?
24:18
What's going on around this
user at the particular time?
24:21
So I hope that some of those ideas
have given you ways to sort of
24:26
think through your work and
approach your work with a different lens.
24:31
So that some of those privileges and
biases are not as automatic.
24:37
And that you can sort of look
beyond them to how other people,
24:44
your users, might actually be
experiencing your product.
24:48
This is the one word that I would ask
you to take away today is, in fact,
24:52
consideration.
24:57
So knowing is half the battle, but
then considering those people,
24:58
going beyond just knowing what
their issues and concerns and
25:03
circumstances are,
to actually considering them.
25:08
Once you start to consider them,
25:12
you'll understand how you
can adjust your process,
25:15
adjust your product,
to help meet them where they
25:20
are without sacrificing the experience for
everyone else.
25:24
I mean, ultimately you got this.
25:29
That's as simple as it is.
25:31
It might feel a little bit difficult
in the beginning to get started, but
25:35
it's a muscle you exercise, and
25:39
it becomes second nature to
consider others in this way.
25:42
And this is me.
25:48
So I saw some questions come through.
25:48
I'm gonna leave this up here, and
try to get to some of your questions here.
25:51
It looks like some of them started
back maybe at the beginning.
25:56
So I'll just take a look at
these on my other monitor here.
26:00
So what was my journey to learn
more about inclusive design?
26:05
[INAUDIBLE] School for, I think you all
heard, I have a degree in information.
26:11
It is human computer interaction
is my specialization.
26:17
And I am like an information junkie,
I am an information addict, I think.
26:21
If there's some information to be had,
I want to know.
26:29
And then as far as inclusivity,
so, at my very, very first job,
26:33
it started off as an internship
while I was still in school.
26:38
In fact, my boss was in a wheelchair.
26:42
He was paralyzed from his chest down
after an accident as a teenager.
26:47
And so he and I ran the entire
user experience department for
26:55
this 4,000 person company.
27:00
And we were an unlikely pair.
27:03
I'm this young,
inexperienced black girl, and
27:06
he's this guy from a liberal
town west of Detroit,
27:11
in a wheelchair paralyzed from chest down.
27:15
We were just an unlikely pair.
27:19
And I think that taught me that
we all have these differences,.
27:21
And from then, from my very, very
first role, I was interested, I think,
27:25
in how we think about these things,
and how we attack them in our work.
27:32
As opposed to just fitting everyone
into these nice little neat boxes,
27:39
because people don't always fit that way.
27:44
Second question, what tools or
27:47
resources would I suggest to learn more
about inclusive design for a designer?
27:49
I think the most valuable
thing that I can tell you,
27:55
it's not a website to go to or anything.
27:59
It's using your ears, honestly,
it's listening to other people.
28:03
It could be in the way of formal research,
28:10
where you sit down with someone,
and you listen to their story, and
28:13
you watch them use your product and
really get that background from them.
28:18
But it could be just informal listening,
listening to your coworkers and
28:23
how they experience things.
28:27
Because in some way,
28:29
in some world, that coworker could
be a user for one of your products.
28:30
And just the understanding
of human nature and
28:35
how people approach problems I think
has been most invaluable to me.
28:40
What if your leadership does not believe
in inclusive culture and design?
28:47
I don't know if that's the leadership for
you.
28:53
I'll keep reading the question though.
28:55
Have you advocated for that in the past?
28:57
I've advocated at my past
work to leadership for
29:00
accessibility features in our product,
and they brushed me off.
29:03
I think that's where it's important.
29:06
And [LAUGH] I started to include this
actually as one of my slides where,
29:09
sometimes it is, and this, it comes after
you have built up a certain rapport,
29:15
I think, with your coworkers and
with your leadership.
29:22
But you get to a place in your career
where you're able to take some risks,
29:27
and make some decisions, and ask for
forgiveness on those decisions later.
29:32
So, maybe I go away in my little corner,
and I am putting together, let's say,
29:38
a set of wireframes that I'm gonna have
to deliver and have designers design.
29:45
And while I'm off in my corner
working on my wireframes,
29:51
I think I'm thinking about these users,
and
29:55
how they might want to use the product and
how people will want to experience it.
29:59
And I say,
most of these users in this audience or
30:06
I think a good subset of them
might actually be left handed.
30:10
I'm gonna move this button to the left.
30:15
So you move that buttons to the left.
30:17
And then when you present it, maybe
you don't say that's why you moved it.
30:20
Maybe you talk about, it aligning well,
maybe you don't even mention it at all,
30:24
and it's just part of the design.
30:29
But you as the inclusive designer that
you are, why you think those decisions,
30:31
if someone asks about it,
you can absolutely defend it.
30:36
You're not sacrificing the experience for
the larger set of users.
30:39
So by doing little things like that,
you start to pinch off bits of
30:46
the experience at a time and bits and
bits of it more inclusive as you go.
30:51
So maybe you don't do
the whole shebang all at once.
30:57
But you just start with something small.
30:59
You test the waters.
31:01
And again, that's why it's good
to buddy up with your analysts,
31:03
because maybe you pull that analyst
aside and say, hey, I tried this and
31:06
I move this button here cuz I
thought it might be a good idea.
31:10
Can you keep an eye on it for me and
let me know how it performs and then that
31:13
you can use for ammunition moving
forward to try your next little thing.
31:18
So Tom asks,
what are your experiences in cost versus
31:24
ROI when advocating that
there is on inclusive design?
31:29
I think that's another one of
those examples where you're
31:34
a good designer,
because you consider everyone.
31:39
And I think it can be scary sometimes for
31:44
leadership to feel like they have
to go all in on inclusive design.
31:48
If you as the practitioner
can take what you've
31:55
learned from your users and
from listening and
32:00
start to mail that into
your experience without
32:05
overtly calling it inclusive design.
32:10
Where inclusive design is not necessarily
supported in your organization.
32:15
Then you win, because you're still
getting your ideas heard and
32:18
seen and hopefully accepted
without necessarily calling
32:25
attention to the fact that
you've made it inclusive.
32:30
And then maybe it's something nice to
rub their noses in after the fact,
32:36
[LAUGH] That you actually
did consider inclusivity.
32:41
But if you start at the beginning,
and you work these in but
32:45
again making sure that it is still
an easy to use experience for
32:51
everyone that I think you have a better
chance of your ROI still staying solid.
32:56
And you don't necessarily have to spend
more to make something inclusive.
33:04
You have to spend more brainpower maybe.
33:08
But maybe you have to talk to
a few more people on your team or
33:13
a couple more users.
33:17
But the idea is not about spending
more to make something inclusive,
33:19
spending dollars I should say to
make something more inclusive.
33:23
It is really about being more empathetic.
33:27
Being more considerate and
those things don't cost anything.
33:31
It just costs your own personal effort,
your own brainpower to do.
33:35
And I think those, okay, so
33:42
this is an interesting question,
33:47
what are my strengths?
33:52
What are my weaknesses and
33:55
how do I learn from them?
33:59
I think that my strengths,
34:03
I will tell you what my coworkers
tell me my strengths are.
34:06
Is that I can tell anyone anything
even if it's constructive
34:11
feedback, and
it still comes out just as nice.
34:17
I don't know how that
became a strength of mine.
34:21
Maybe it's the patience from
having two young children and
34:25
just trying to be as Kind and patient with
them even when I need them to hurry up and
34:29
do something I asked them to do.
34:34
But that has helped me win friends,
34:37
build relationships inside
my walls at work, and
34:40
cultivate what it means to
really partner with people.
34:44
I try to stay close with Dev,
with analytics,
34:49
with strategy with the client
relations like everyone.
34:53
Because at some point, there will always
be someone that can do something for
34:57
you or you can partner with to help
make your experience a success.
35:03
These are some of my weaknesses.
35:08
I think it goes back to
that being an information
35:11
junkie it is easy for
me to get lost in that sometimes.
35:16
Because I always want more information and
35:21
there's this paralysis that
can come with it sometimes.
35:26
So sometimes you just have to step away,
close the computer, and
35:31
step away for a bit.
35:35
But it is I can always find
something new to learn,
35:36
always I'm thirsty, hungry for
information all the time.
35:41
How do I learn from those?
35:47
I mean I am constantly poking and
prodding my teammates.
35:49
Dev loves me, especially because I
will take an idea that I've heard or
35:56
seen and ask them about it.
36:01
And I have a little bit of Dev under
my belt so I can always go to them and
36:03
say, listen, I know I'm simplifying this,
36:09
but I think it would make it so
much easier for my users if do.
36:12
After they roll their eyes, then they
have a conversation with me about it and
36:17
we figure out if it's something really
feasible for our project or not.
36:22
What do I think will be the next
big thing in inclusive design?
36:27
I think that it's hard to say actually,
the next big thing.
36:36
I think it's hard for
me to say because I don't think
36:42
of inclusive design as like
these big stair steps or
36:48
like points in time where
this big innovation
36:54
happened and now everyone can do a thing.
36:58
I think of it more as like a gradual
understanding that people are coming to,
37:03
that we as practitioners and
our organizations are coming to.
37:10
I think that the political and
37:16
social climate that we're in
is raising the awareness for
37:19
tons of people across
board on tons of issues.
37:24
And I do think that at this point,
it is a turning point for
37:29
inclusivity not just in our digital and
37:34
physical experiences and
our service design for instance.
37:37
But that it is raising the awareness for
so many people that it almost
37:43
opens the door for us to be able
to have these conversations, and
37:48
have them not fall on deaf ears
where otherwise they might have.
37:53
So I'm excited for that.
37:58
I'm excited if the doors crack just
a little bit, I'm gonna put my foot in and
37:59
then I'm gonna put my shoulder in and
it really puts off of this inclusivity.
38:04
Why it's important, why it matters,
why we should be considering it.
38:09
It's a turning point for
us to be able to speak up.
38:14
And not be quiet about why
these things are important.
38:19
Any thoughts on the accessibility
plugins I've seen sites use.
38:23
I feel like it doesn't go far enough but
I've seen them everywhere.
38:28
I would agree, I think, so
the accessibility plugins,
38:33
some of them are more
advanced than others.
38:38
I think the most basic thing
that people who build websites,
38:42
let's say, I think the most
basic thing they understand
38:48
about accessibility is color contrast and
like font size.
38:53
But when you think about the full
range of accessibility features and
38:58
affordances those two
things are like peanuts,
39:04
because there's so much to consider.
39:07
And there are so many things that can't
be executed by a computer necessarily or
39:11
by a plugin or by a line of
JavaScript that you drop on the site.
39:18
Some of those will help with making
the font bigger necessary or
39:24
making sure the color contrast is
right for that particular user.
39:28
And most things are good,
they're grayed back, but
39:33
they only start to skim the surface of
what it means for a site to be accessible.
39:36
Because if a user can't understand
something because the line length
39:41
is too long and it's too hard for
the eye to keep track of that line.
39:46
Then that's not necessarily something
that an accessibility plugin or
39:51
accessibility bit of
JavaScript can account for.
39:57
So I don't think they go far enough,
I think I was at a conference in March,
40:01
actually, right before
everything shut down.
40:06
And I met a woman there who blew my
40:10
mind about accessibility.
40:15
I had an understanding of accessibility
before, but this is, again,
40:19
that part of me always wanting to
know more and understand more.
40:24
And when she talked to me,
I sat in on one of her sessions and
40:29
then had the opportunity to
talk to her afterward as well.
40:33
When we talked about
accessibility together,
40:37
it really opened my mind to the types of
accessibility issues that people have.
40:42
How they're overcoming them,
40:50
what kind of affordances we can
make to help ease that process.
40:52
So there's an infinite
range of features that
40:57
we can consider for
our particular product.
41:02
And again,
it depends on who your audience is, but
41:07
there's an infinite range it goes so
far beyond contrast and font size.
41:11
I think I'm eager to learn even
more about accessibility and
41:18
how we can be more inclusive for
those audiences.
41:23
How can I tell how accessible my work is?
41:27
There are user groups that
where the participants
41:31
are have some sort of disability or
41:36
have some sort of impairment and
they will test your product.
41:39
They will use their screen readers or
41:45
their own measures that they use
to get around in the world and
41:48
will test your product, your services,
and give you feedback on them.
41:53
And it's sometimes it's as simple as
just going to a local organization that
41:59
supports these audiences and just
sitting with them and talking to them.
42:05
On the side, this is a bit of I teach
spin classes from time to time,
42:11
[LAUGH] And we were doing a class
at a local community center.
42:18
The kitchen that we were in was adjacent
to like a sort of banquet kind of room.
42:25
And the doors were closed but
we could hear something going on,
42:30
like someone will come
to find out once a week.
42:36
This group of hearing
impaired individuals,
42:40
they get together with each other and
just have a good time they talk and
42:43
there was a ton of sign
language happening.
42:48
Some of them have some verbal and
audio abilities.
42:51
So they were competing with each other,
and myself and
42:56
the students in the next room over.
42:59
Like we built a relationship with them
because then we ended up while being there
43:01
while they were there.
43:06
They were able to teach us something and
we were able to learn from them.
43:07
And I think that experience
kind of taught me that you
43:12
don't have to necessarily go
out of your way all the time.
43:17
But you just have to be aware, right?
43:22
Aware of who's around you, aware of how
they are moving through the world and
43:24
how they're experiencing the world and
asking questions.
43:29
But beyond asking questions listening.
43:33
Because it's easy to be dismissive and
say, that person couldn't use my products
43:37
because they just didn't know what they
were doing or they just didn't see it.
43:42
When really there could be
some underlying thing there,
43:47
that by dismissing their
inability to use the product,
43:52
you're then missing as a practitioner.
43:56
How was your study?
44:01
What are your favorite tools for
building inclusive design?
44:03
Yeah, [LAUGH] Again,
my tools are sort of, I guess rudimentary
44:08
like I can see something on paper and
I got a napkin by here and
44:13
I'm sure there's a crayon around here
somewhere like those are my tools.
44:18
It comes to me more from
being empathetic and
44:24
listening and
that connection with other people.
44:30
How has your study of inclusive design
44:36
shown up in your life outside of work?
44:40
Well, I gave you that little example about
44:45
the Kitchen Crew is the name
of the cooking classes.
44:50
So we talked there,
other ways it's shown up outside of work.
44:55
All right, I have to think about that and
I'll come back to that one.
45:02
What's a for-profit company
that you feel is doing
45:08
a great job with inclusive design?
45:12
A for-profit company.
45:15
I think that's an important distinction.
45:17
Because it's, I wouldn't say easy for
nonprofit but
45:21
it is maybe more profit just by their
very nature to include audiences,
45:27
[INAUDIBLE] Example for
you for-profit company.
45:35
So this is a local utility company.
45:40
What they care most about
from a business perspective,
45:44
is having people use their utilities,
turn on the lights,
45:49
turn on the heat, and
then pay them for it.
45:54
There is a large portion of consumers who
45:58
are low income and because of that,
46:03
that manifests itself in maybe not having
46:07
a bank account or
not having transportation,
46:12
not having a computer at home.
46:18
We've talked about that.
46:22
And so they've had to be creative and
46:24
find ways to meet those residents and
those consumers where they are.
46:28
What they've done in some areas is
install kiosks in local drugstores or
46:35
pharmacies where those
consumers are likely to go.
46:44
Because it's easy to send
a bill in the mail, right?
46:50
That's the old school way of doing it.
46:54
I'm sure they're completely capable
of sending a bill in the mail, but
46:55
then you have to worry about that person
having a stamp to actually send it back.
47:00
Do they have transportation to
a post office to get a stamp?
47:05
Maybe not.
47:10
It's those little considerations, but
47:12
by putting the kiosk where they might
normally go anyway, they can walk there.
47:15
If they don't have a bank account,
I don't have a check to sign and
47:20
maybe they can't go and
hook up to their ashed.
47:26
They go and put this cash in the kiosk.
47:30
And that's how they pay
their bill instead.
47:33
So it's this idea of meeting
people where they are and
47:36
adjusting how they're able to
interact with you and your product.
47:40
Let's see.
47:48
What could you ask a prospective employer
to make sure they're committed to
47:49
inclusive design?
47:53
Well, I love that question.
47:54
I think rather than going straight for
the gusto and
47:59
asking about inclusive design right away,
maybe you ease into it.
48:03
So maybe you ask them what
their process is, and
48:08
a lot of that before you even find out
48:13
what their process is for
inclusive design.
48:17
I think it's helpful to
understand what their diversity,
48:21
equity, and
inclusion looks like within their walls.
48:25
Because if they can commit
to it with their employees,
48:29
then it makes it easier for
them to commit to it in their work.
48:34
And it helps you know that that they
understand that it's important for sure.
48:39
So maybe you start, [LAUGH] Back
your main question about inclusive
48:43
design in the word first,
pull back from that a little bit, and
48:48
ease into the idea that this
is really part of the process.
48:53
And that they understand it or
at least are willing to listen and learn,
48:57
even if they're not doing it today.
49:02
What projects am I working on
which includes inclusive designs?
49:04
Let's see, a project that I just wrapped
on was an E-comm not the best example.
49:11
I've been doing some work lately
with an insurance company.
49:19
And I think it's interesting
work because I have my idea
49:26
of what the insurance company
is from being a consumer.
49:31
But then, once you get into their
walls you learn much more about
49:36
who their consumers are and how far.
49:41
So for instance,
49:44
a senior citizen who is homebound who
doesn't have any family around to help and
49:46
has to use a home health nurse that's
include like designing for that person.
49:51
And what their experience is,
that's inclusive design, right?
49:57
Making sure that they can get all
the medical help and prescriptions and
50:01
everything that they need as
part of their user journey.
50:06
That's some bit of inclusive design.
50:10
If we want to take a universal approach,
and we're not a diverse team,
50:14
how can we make sure we're not
overlooking certain groups?
50:20
I think this is important.
50:24
I was on a project recently and
I take it back.
50:26
I was on the project I know about the
project and it is a multicultural effort.
50:30
And I didn't know who was going
to be staffed on the team.
50:36
So I asked,
[LAUGH] Who was gonna be staff.
50:39
And I think that there's
always the opportunity
50:43
to have more diversity on the team.
50:50
But if you're short handed, and you don't
have enough people to fill those roles,
50:55
and it does become a matter of doing your
research outside of yourselves, right?
51:02
So if you're on that project and you know
you're not the best representatives for
51:08
that work, but
this is the hand that was drawn and
51:12
these are the people
that are on the project.
51:15
Then that's up to those people on
the project to look outside of themselves,
51:17
[COUGH] And
go find the most representative users and
51:24
the most representative audience for
that particular product.
51:28
And to not try to pretend that they
are it or that they know it or
51:34
can understand it because they're so
good at their jobs.
51:38
Because at that point it goes beyond
just being good at your job and
51:42
good at executing a design or
an experience, let's say.
51:48
Because it's something
you don't know about.
51:52
So it's okay to say I don't know
about this particular audience.
51:54
I'm going to go out of my way to go and
learn about this particular audience.
51:57
That's what makes it
a good inclusive design.
52:02
Not just saying,
I've met a person like this before.
52:05
I know all there is to
know about this audience.
52:10
I've got this covered then that's
an arrogant posture to take.
52:12
And it's one that ultimately can
sacrifice the user experience and
52:18
will be unfair to your users.
52:24
Yeah, so I think that sums it up.
52:27
I hope that I have answered
all of your questions.
52:30
Thank you for sharing all of them.
52:34
I think this was fun for me.
52:35
So I appreciate it.
52:39
I hope you all took something away
from this and again, feel free.
52:40
You have my email here.
52:44
Feel free to reach out to me anytime.
52:45
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